Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome to the IdeaGen Future Summit here in Washington at the NED live. I'm honored and privileged to be here with my good friend Mark Fitzgerald from KPMG. Thank you, George.

Speaker 1: 0:23

Mark, welcome privilege to be here with my good friend, mark Fitzgerald from KPMG. Mark welcome. Mark is changing the world at KPMG as he works with global institutions and governments across the world. Mark, we're here to talk about what so many people are talking about, which is transformation, specifically digital transformation that's reshaping international development and I want to ask you how are things changing? What is this transformation looking like?

Speaker 2: 0:55

Perhaps, if you can see, that far over the next five years. George, I always do this to you, but I'm going to go off script straight away. Apologies for this. I want to recognize today is the 6th of June, so D-Day 81 years ago, and a lot of your conversations today are the future of education, healthcare and so forth. But if I think back to that day and how it shaped the future that we have all lived through for the last 81 years, it's really quite pivotal. So everything you mentioned where I focus my time, with the World Bank, the UN and so forth all those institutions were established after World War II and that world order still exists today. I know some people have a view that it's under attack and a lot of people have a lot of opinions about it, but that order has been in place, that structure has been in place for eight decades. So as we think forward into the future of digitalization, government development and so forth, we do have to lean back a little bit and reflect where we come from, because our perspective is different, whether we've been around for the eight, eight decades, whether being around for, you know, one decade, because how we embrace technology will change on that perspective.

Speaker 2: 2:18

One quick anecdote I got an uber in today and this is an overlay on digitalization, trust and innovation. This Uber driver was great. His name is Jose, he came from, I think, mexico about 20 years ago and he was full of chat and he wanted to tell me about another passenger he had previously in his Uber. And this guy he didn't know who he was, but he was telling him a story. He said, oh, I ordered something from Amazon and I had five packages arrive at my doorstep. And then when I got home, there were three packages in my home and I wondered where did the other two go? Because I got a picture from Amazon to say here are my five packages when they were delivered. So he trusted that they arrived when they said they were going to arrive. So he asked his housemate where did the other two? He said no, I didn't take them whatever. So they went into their ring, the webcam on the door to see what happened. And what happened was the Uber driver sorry, the Amazon driver brought the packages, put them all out the five of them, took a picture and then picked up two and left.

Speaker 2: 3:38

So my point here is we have a certain degree of trust through that digital platform that what we order will arrive. We also have a degree of trust that who's delivering those packages will deliver them and leave. So your immediate thought is who, from the street, took those packages? But it wasn't. It was the actual driver. So trust is inherent in the use and interaction of the digital platform. What was interesting, though, just to round out the story, the other passenger he was talking about ended up being an Amazon VP, because of course, they've got a big base here in Crystal City. He was appalled because he was relatively high level. He doesn't get to hear these stories. He gets to hear of the theft, but your immediate thought is not from the drivers, it goes from elsewhere. So the process of taking the pictures is to help the customer understand. Amazon has delivered on its promise, sure, but the trust in the delivery mode and the driver, that's where he was taken aback. So it was a humancentered story wrapped in a digital experience.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Wow, Speechless, yeah so sorry, what was the question I completely went off topic but how it relates to international development. So I notice you have another segment straight after this one around AI and how it is going to impact the future of any particular sector, particular government. But I notice in this next segment, your focus is on the future is already here and I really want to stress that point. We all interact with technology in different ways. I'm pretty much a dinosaur, but I interact with it. The future is already here.

Speaker 2: 5:32

Ai is not abstract. Ai has actually been around for a long time, largely around robotics, analytics and so forth. Generative AI is more recent, but we're all moving. We are already moving into agentic ai. So the point I think I would leave anyone with is the future is already here. You just have to make the choice around what that means for you. It's either by sector or geography, or what you want to do personally. Everything is going to be a little different on your perspective, but it is isn't something that you should wait to understand the impact of on your life.

Speaker 1: 6:09

Mark, you've been talking about this for a long time, from the UN, from us convening at the UN, at the NASDAQ, all over the world, and could you, for our global audience, describe what does generative AI mean and what you just said? Agentic is here. I understand it because we've talked about it, but what, for the global audience, is a Gentic AI?

Speaker 2: 6:32

So let me give you some examples to kind of bring it to life. Everything is rooted in data, and how you gather that data, how you analyze that data. That has been in place now for some time. So that's kind of the origins of how we interpret intelligence based on a digital platform. Then we moved into generative ai, where it's a little bit more interactive and I'll give you a very quick anecdote on this.

Speaker 2: 6:58

Just last week we had a team meeting with my, with my team, and there were two members whose birthday began in the year 2000 and whatever. So they were not born in the 20th century, so they were like 22, 23. And the way they described their interaction with generative AI was not as a tool but as a colleague. So I kind of blew my mind a little bit, because I am being wired, I'm being messaged to think about generative AI as a tool to improve efficiency. The way they describe is they have their own device, their laptop, and then they have another device. They open up both, they turn on both when they come to the office every day and they interact from the human engagement through their normal device and then through this other device where generative ai is deployed and that interaction is seen almost like a colleague to colleague relationship. So hopefully that gives you some perspective. It's all based on the same data and the interaction and the interrogation of that data but it's how it's viewed and how it's deployed has changed dramatically. And then when we get into agentic AI, then we're into what that device can do in advance of you interacting with it.

Speaker 2: 8:20

So it could be as simple as predictive vacations. We see you like these type of vacations in your past. Here's some recommendations for you. Would you like us to book that for you, or it could be? We've talked a lot about health. These are the patterns we've seen in your mental wellness journey or your prescription journey, whatever it is. Would you like to ensure a follow-up and monitoring that in due course?

Speaker 1: 8:48

Or doesn't it even go further than that? Doesn't it even like? Isn't it gentic also like see that you have diabetes, you've been treated for it and perhaps you know I scheduled a workout session at the gym for tomorrow because there's an opening in your schedule and that type of thing. Isn't that, of course?

Speaker 2: 9:08

And when you think about the power of that data, it can be a force for tremendous good. But if they get it wrong, if there's any inherent bias in that analysis, it can go sideways pretty quickly. So we're just on the cusp of understanding what that responsible kind of ethical use of that data is and there's a lot of very wise and learned, experienced think tanks looking at that. But how it shows up in our day-to-day life it's still early. We know the power of what it can be, but the potential pitfalls are also of concern.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Have you seen the new VO3, which creates it's incredible, it's language to video and audio and creates any scene. I watched a five-minute clip of an auto show and participants at an auto show and you would not be able to distinguish real from fake. The sounds, the people, incredible. And so we're heading in a place where you're right. You mentioned the future is already here, it's already beyond here. Would you consider Amazon? Is that a genetic like when they suggest packages and other types of products? I should say they're starting.

Speaker 2: 10:28

Clearly they have the capacity. And of course, Amazon is not just about deliveries, it's AWS as well. So data centers is a big engine of their own growth. But how they use that information, how they sell that information, how they ultimately analyze and package that information, that's not a new concept for them. Sure, but yes is the answer. But all the big tech companies have invested heavily in this area.

Speaker 2: 10:58

There's many variations of how much that is. It's certainly in the hundreds of billions, billions, probably in the trillions at this stage when you take into account the capital expenditure as well. But it's also the ancillary investments. So a data center is its own capital expenditure project. But then you've got to power it so that power has to come from somewhere. So each particular state or government needs to understand how much power extra power do got to power it so that power has to come from somewhere. So each particular state or government needs to understand how much power extra power do we need? That perhaps ten years ago was underestimated. Now it's accelerated massively. So when you put overlay that onto the climate agenda, how do you then get to the required levels of power just for data centers? That was probably underestimated only a few years ago.

Speaker 1: 11:46

And I guess a follow-up to that is does that impact also areas on the planet, and maybe communities specifically, but areas on the planet that may not already have enough energy Of? Course it does Will they all fall behind theoretically. Have enough energy?

Speaker 2: 12:02

Of course it does Will they all fall behind, theoretically, of course. And later this year there's a very meaningful COP, the climate conference that UN supports. This year it's in Brazil. They have it every year, but every other year, every even year, they seem to kind of elevate its profile. But this year is quite important because there's this concept of NDCs. These are the disclosure statements of different governments around what they want, their kind of path to net zero or emissions. What does that look like? Only about 13 countries have submitted those so far. Obviously they're expecting a lot more between now and when that conference happens in November. So far, obviously they're expecting a lot more between now and when that conference happens in November.

Speaker 2: 12:44

But a big part of that, george, is the energy demand within these countries has changed so much in the last couple of years. They've had to adjust, in some cases regress their ambition around their carbon targets. We've now moved away from fossil fuels bad, renewables good. It used to be a very black and white world in that climate agenda. Now it's a bit more nuanced. Now it's about we need both and probably more. Nuclear has come back online as a component. So it's interesting when you get into the politics of this that it's not about one is bad and one is good. It's about how do we embrace all of it to meet the energy demands in a responsible, sustainable future state way that will be ultimately beneficial to the government.

Speaker 1: 13:37

Incredible, and that's shifted over just the past few years.

Speaker 2: 13:39

Right it has yeah, the small modular nuclear focus. That technology has been there for a while but nobody's actually thought about deploying it in a serious way. That has changed because of these energy demands and it's seen as a responsible from a climate point of view.

Speaker 1: 13:58

Other people have concerns around safety, um, but that has accelerated in a way that would not have been possible 10 years ago you know, it's just so profound to hear about and I and I, I sound the alarm, I, I sound the alarm and other things, and we'll talk about that a little bit later. But digitalization is positioned as a key enabler. Digitalization is positioned as a key enabler for achieving the SDGs the Sustainable Development Goals by 2030.

Speaker 2: 14:36

What is the most transformative, that you believe holds the most urgency and how, mark, can technology get us there? Well, I'll step back a little bit, george, because technology is definitely going to be an enabler, for sure, and there's many use cases in any sector, from farming to health provision to infrastructure. Those use cases are limitless. But we need to understand a lot of it is based on two key elements that will not change. One is data. Technology uses data to produce a result that is perhaps more effective, more efficient, more timely. But the other element so that's very kind of objective the other element is quite subjective and that's trust.

Speaker 2: 15:22

If somebody on the other end of that output doesn't trust the output, what do you do then? So let me give you a few examples. So a lot of that trust was stressed and tested during the pandemic, because you had scientists and medical field telling us one thing, you had some others saying something else and then you had bits and pieces in the middle about the interpretation of those two kind of schools of thought and, depending how you got your kind of, your media or what you considered your truth, your facts, largely through a digital device, influenced how you would then act as a person, or a community or a company. So for us it's about putting technology and digitalization into the context of what it means to the individual, what it means to the context of what that individual is expected to do, whether it's on the professional, corporate side or personal side. That is what's going to change the trajectory of how governments or other largely public sector entities will view digitalization in a good way or potentially otherwise.

Speaker 1: 16:50

Given your experience with accounting and oversight in complex, very complex systems that you're dealing with. How can these organizations leverage the data and the digital tools to be able to ensure transparency and impact at the same time?

Speaker 2: 17:08

Yes, again, some of this will be very familiar to everyone. So we all have trust that we put money into a bank and we know generally that it's going to be covered by the government if there's any issue with the bank. But banks do fail, so it's it's not so much blind trust but there is a degree of trust that the money we put into the bank, that it is then digitally coded. We never see that cash again. It's a digital imprint. We trust that. That feels comfortable to everyone. We understand that.

Speaker 2: 17:45

But where we're moving is into a degree of uncertainty on a human level about how digitalization will interact with them in a day-to-day way. So let me give you an example. Let me give you an example If you are in a country that has embraced so-called e-government, you are pretty much tracked even before birth, so during kind of maternal health and so forth, and then delivery and so forth, from that point until death and even beyond, electronically, and your ease of interaction with government is entirely based on the accuracy of that information but also your trust that that information is going to be responsibly used. So another element I would say to everyone is understand what is yours. Data about yourself is yours. It doesn't belong to somebody else. You have advocacy of your ownership over that data, so that is something I think a lot of awareness needs to be built on. Some people inherently get that if they're kind of digitally native, but a lot of population do not and that can be a problem.

Speaker 1: 19:00

There's been a lot of talk about just as an aside on that about having your own copyrighted likeness, image, et cetera, especially as we move forward. And now with AI, I mean the lines are getting blurred because what's real, what's not? Like I mentioned that VL3 creating thing, so it's really complicated, but your practice works across sectors, all the way from clean water to sustainable cities. What are the barriers Mark that you see across these sectors? We love to talk about cross-sector. What are some of those key barriers that you're seeing?

Speaker 2: 19:35

Yeah, I work a lot in emerging markets, so some of the traditional barriers are just access to capital, the right resources, the right skill set. It could be geopolitics, it could be local politics, it could be notes. A lot of a traditional barriers still exists and I wouldn't certainly dismiss those as irrelevant. They are highly relevant. But on the technology side it is going to be an awareness of how connected that country or that sector wishes to be outside of its immediate boundaries. So that felt very comfortable 10 years ago. When you think about globalization and how corporates or even citizens worked right across border way, it felt very natural. Sure, that is changing or has changed. So people have now kind of retreated into their national boundaries. So that could be a little bit self limiting in terms of development of new investments, new opportunities, because in the digital world those national boundaries are largely I wouldn't say irrelevant. They are relevant but they're less impactful as a barrier. So you need to understand that if you're going to invest in a digital either digital investment itself or a digital enabled investment getting access to international and global resources is key.

Speaker 2: 21:05

The other thing I would mention in terms of barriers is going to be what other actors in an investment do you need to interact with and trust? Let me give you a very quick case study. We're working with a coal plant in asia and we're trying to create a financing deal where they have an early decommissioning of burning coal. So instead of 30 years out, let's say, bring it back to 20 years out. So they've got lots of runway to decommission early.

Speaker 2: 21:43

But you got a trust the regulator is going to hold them account to 20 years. You got a trust that the regulator is going to create other opportunities for power generation outside of the coal plant, because government needs the extra power that the coal was providing won't be doing in the future. You've got to trust that the financers of that delta between 20 years and 30 years are going to pay, based on the interaction with the regulator, the government, etc. So all of that is based on digitalization trust, on the data sharing of data, digitalization trust, on the data sharing of data. But you still have to have a human-centric element of trust within those different actors. It's always complicated, so I think the barrier is you are never an island. You've got to understand where you interact.

Speaker 1: 22:35

How do you ensure that trust? It's come up quite a few times during this conversation. How do you monitor and ensure that that trust remains's come up quite a few times during this conversation. How do you, how do you monitor and ensure that that trust remains in place?

Speaker 2: 22:45

we used to be very focused on in dc trust but verify was a term that was thrown around for for a few decades but it actually explained meaningful. We would never go in with blind trust in a business transaction. But there was a degree of trust, an alignment of values or alignment of expectations or or mutual benefit, but then you would have to make sure that that's been actually implemented. So you would have firms or other monitors come in and clarify and build that credibility over time. Um, that's getting stressed, that's being eroded and that could be a difficult issue, particularly with investments that are built over a timeline of 10, 20 years.

Speaker 1: 23:34

Incredible. Incredible to hear. You've built oversight systems, though, from the ground up, for example at UNOPS. What are some of the lessons you learned from that?

Speaker 2: 23:47

So two big things I would mention. Human nature is ever-present. It looks and feels a little different in this digital age, but unfortunately we are frail and we are prone to error, and if there's opportunity, vision, you will have bad actors. That's, that's a common truth and that is going to remain. So what you try and do is mitigate the impact of that. So use your resources in terms of oversight, intervention, in a way that won't go after the one cent in the dollar. You're going after the dollar in the dollar. You're going after the big picture items that have very meaningful impact. So that would be the first element. The second is going to be never assume that expectations are aligned, because you have to understand the motivation of different actors about what they're expecting out of a deal or a transaction, and that changes particularly when you've got governments involved because of their cycle and politics and so forth. So you've got to constantly re-evaluate that, and that can be hard.

Speaker 1: 25:05

That can be hard. International donors, multilateral organizations they're shifting their approach because of politics, because of digital disruption, because of emerging technologies. How do we decipher that Mark? What are you seeing there?

Speaker 2: 25:23

We know that we're in a period of disruption, certainly in the international development field and particularly with respect to how the US government wishes to engage in the use of its foreign assistance, which is very meaningful. The US is a major player in many fields, particularly in health and education, even in governance models and so forth.

Speaker 2: 25:45

You name it. They've always had a very key seat at the table and that's being re-evaluated right now, including the relationship with the UN system, development banks and so forth. But the way things are looking right now is I think there's an alignment of values of the current administration with development banks in particular, because it's very explicit what development banks do. They are banks. They deal in transactions. It's very explicit there's transactions that can be made clear and explicit about where it would provide mutual benefit back to those who are investing in those transactions, including the US. We're also seeing a very clear pivot to, I would say, old school but still very relevant issues like job creation, economic development, economic opportunity, investment in health, investment in education. So those traditional values of the US government still show through. We still have a bit of time to figure out what that looks like in practice, but we are beginning to see that realignment happen in real time.

Speaker 1: 27:07

Fascinating, and so impact investing as well. You're heavily involved in impact investing and it's gained so much traction against, of course, across, rather, the development space. From your perspective, mark, what's needed piece. From your perspective, mark, what's needed to move from good intentions to actual measurable and sustainable impact and results.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Let me say first that for the last five plus years, there's been a very clear statement by the impact investing field. There is plenty of money. There are plenty of problems. Therefore, how do we make sure the money gets to where the problems or the opportunities, whichever way you want to phrase it how do we make sure that happens? We're further down that road now. I think what we're hearing here in the USS is not fully reflective of what's happening in the rest of the world. I think what we need to do is redefine what impact means in the context of where we are. So we're in DC today. Impact could mean what's in the interest of the US or what's in the interest of a particular community.

Speaker 2: 28:22

I just had a very quick conversation with one of the participants here about investment in new areas of power generation in Texas. It's still on the agenda. It's still happening. Those transactions have been in the works now for many years and they will remain so because our populations continue to grow, our demands continue to grow. So, state by state, we still have our ambitions about what impact we need to achieve. We may be redefining it or restating it and, on the global stage. A lot of other donors and actors have begun to lean in because there's so much momentum around access to investments, making those transactions happen. The momentum has kind of gone beyond the tipping point now. This isn't something that we need to convince people is the right thing to do. It's also financially the right thing to do. It's also financially the right thing to do. So I've noticed in the last three or four months and on the world stage it's like okay, we're getting on with the business as usual, is that right?

Speaker 1: 29:33

that's great, that's incredible, and so you saying that in terms of the updates here is is incredible to hear, because you're working with over 70 countries. In your portfolio there's 193 member states. Last time I checked in the United Nations, you're working with 70 and probably more at any given time. It fluctuates, I'm sure. How do you navigate, tailoring solutions to these countries and nations and then juxtaposing upon that local context while maintaining global standards and consistency? How do you do that?

Speaker 2: 30:13

So this is where digitalization has a big part, because of course, the zeros and ones are going to be a zero and one in any context, in any culture. It's how you apply that will feel and look a little different. So it could be language, it could be the analytics, it could be the output of the analytics. That's what will change at the local level. But you have to understand what is the problem of the opportunity you are seeking to address through digitalization. So in some places it's purely about providing survival support in healthcare, whereas in other contexts is the survival piece is largely taken care of. You were more invested in how we make people thrive, right. So the context is everything, but the constant is tech can enable a more efficient and effective and timely kind of solution, but you've got to kind of make it relevant not just to the country but to the individual in that country that you're willing to interact with. So human-centered design remains highly, highly relevant, even in the digital world. But what that looks like and feels like by country, by sector is quite varied.

Speaker 1: 31:30

Let me digress for a second and ask you a question. I think a lot of people around the world are wondering While you're talking about digital disruption and all of the things that come along with it. One of the things that comes along with it is perhaps the need for upskilling, for retraining, because there will be some jobs that will no longer be conducted by humans and it will be AI-driven. It just won't be necessary. It's kind of like you had the cart and the horse and that was great. You had a beautiful cart along with it, and along came the automobile. Suddenly, you didn't need that nice cart. You maybe kept the horse. So what are you seeing there? I mean, are you seeing if the future is already here, which we believe is the case here, which we believe is the case? Is there something that folks aren't ready for? Perhaps that?

Speaker 2: 32:29

you're helping to sound the alarm on. Yes, I think back to last September, the UN General Assembly, microsoft had an event and one of their senior vice presidents. He made a very eloquent and compelling kind of story of where we are now with respect to AI and he went all the way back to kind of the printing press and kind of looked at elements of technology enhancement since then. So he's put it into that context. Think of how the printing press changed pretty much all our lives, the world, in such a dramatic fashion. Press changed pretty much all our lives, the world, in such a dramatic fashion. They see it in the same vein and probably then some because of the scale and the volume and acceleration that we can have in the modern world.

Speaker 2: 33:14

I say that because how people engage with the use of AI will not just determine what they will do in their job, but it will determine how that job will ultimately be shaped for the next person in that job. Does that job exist or not? So it's something we all have to embrace individually, but it's also going to have a significant role in reshaping how workplaces kind of look and feel in three to five years' time. We're not talking decades here, george, I've said to you before, even at a firm like ours, we've already adjusted our campus recruiting headcount figures for 2029 and 2030. That's how far we're thinking in terms of not just numbers but the skill set. So if I could make a plea to anyone is bring this all the way back, not just to university level, third level we have to go back minimum to high school and probably beyond.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Go all the way back to elementary so I guess, if a high school or middle school right now is not not embracing ai for their students, big mistake, right? I would ask why. You would ask why? Yeah, fascinating because even universe large universities and colleges are not. Some are like and then, and I look, I three, four years ago.

Speaker 2: 34:42

I get it because I think there's a sense of people are going to use AI to cheat or to plagiarize or just create something that they should be creating themselves All the things that we understand college to support. But that was only two or three years ago. The world has changed now and, as I gave you that little anecdote about the people who work on my team, how they see and interact with AI, that future is existing today. That's not going to change, no matter how resistant, more experienced people like you and I may be, but that reality is here now Will entire profession.

Speaker 1: 35:21

You know just a prediction and we don't want to single out a single profession or anything else, but will entire professional services maybe not necessarily marks? I don't want to single that out just like. Will things change so dramatically? Let's pick on lawyers for a moment. We will single out one. What about lawyers? Is it possible, based on what you're seeing and the landscape, that maybe you won't need to go to a lawyer? Maybe you'll get better legal advice from an AI platform, an app that can draft your will or your home mortgage loan application or whatever it is?

Speaker 2: 36:01

The way I'd answer it, George, is the technology could certainly do that, it could create that vision. But are we comfortable with that output, with that outcome? Because I could see myself in a position where I'm comfortable that the lawyer I would work with would be 90% driven by what technology can produce. But I want to have that validation from a person.

Speaker 1: 36:25

But that's you, that's me. So maybe your colleagues that have the two computers and the colleague which one is AI would say well, I don't need to talk to someone, just like the ATM or the bank branches where I still like to go in say hello, I'm here, I'm depositing, or I still write checks, what's that?

Speaker 2: 36:46

So we've come back to a circle to trust.

Speaker 2: 36:50

And trust is relative, depending on your perspective. So my trust would be the validation by a human. Somebody else may have a different view, and that's where we are right now that is evolving in front of our eyes. Are we ready? We have no choice. It's already here, so we we have to embrace this and acknowledge the opportunities, but also the potential pitfalls. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of very smart people have written a lot of ideas of how to best utilize these emerging technologies. Let's not wait to engage on a personal level.

Speaker 1: 37:34

Private sector. What role do you see the private sector partners, especially in consulting and assurance, playing in advancing inclusive innovation across the development ecosystem?

Speaker 2: 37:49

I'll make this very quick. We have to interact with technology in a way that will build trust, either in capital markets or the customers, and we need to understand that context of what that means. So is that going to be responsible or socially ethical? That can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So know your audience and build technology to deliver accordingly, and that will look and feel very different depending on the country and the sector, but the technology will be very consistent. And, Mark, you know, just a few years ago you and I were doing an interview and I think, and the sector, but the technology will be very consistent.

Speaker 1: 38:23

And, Mark, just a few years ago, you and I were doing an interview and I think we were at the UN or at the NASDAQ and we were talking about 2030. And here we are, just five years away from 2030. It seems like it was a million years ahead. What gives you, Mark Fitzgerald at KPMG, the most hope about our ability to align technology policy and capital for global good, Mark Fitzgerald?

Speaker 2: 38:56

KPMG Director, global Development Goals. George, I've said many times to you that the Sustain development goals are like a code of ethics for humanity. I still believe that Largely they're aspirational and certainly have become so because we've progressed on many of the key metrics, largely because of the pandemic. And then, you know, a lot of governments don't have the same amount of resources or attention to be able to focus on some of those key metrics. But those needs in the world still exist and where there is a need in the world, you have to meet the need. That that's just a moral obligation we all have.

Speaker 2: 39:32

So the private sector is engaged with that, whether they know it or not. So what I mean by that is private sector and invested in their communities. Wherever they want to sell whatever they're selling or engage in what they're producing, they need to have a vibrant community to work with. That's just inherent in their business model. So, as we think out 20, 30 years, private sector isn't the panacea. It's not going to be the one and only thing to save the world I don't go to that lofty level but it is a big, big player in making sure that we advance on what we need to.

Speaker 1: 40:10

Mark Fitzgerald, what is your call to action for our global audience here in your role at KPMG?

Speaker 2: 40:17

Two things. One would be on a personal level understand that generative AI, agentic AI it's not the future, it's already here. Understand what it means to you individually, understand what it could mean for you and your role and embrace it. And the second is whatever role you are in, understand that that role has already changed, even if you don't feel like it has. That that role has already changed, even if you don't feel like it has, and you get to shape that future through the work you're doing today and through that personal engagement and use of technology. So the avoidance of that engagement means a lot of things may be done to you. You have an opportunity to influence what that future looks like for you individually and also for your role and your sector, etc.

Speaker 1: 41:05

Mark Fitzgerald, kpmg, leading the way. Thank you so very much, thank you.